tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14510749.post116178251057427424..comments2023-10-05T00:44:33.255+08:00Comments on CreationEvolutionDesign: Ancient fish [Gogonasus andrewsae] was advanced for its ageStephen E. Joneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14510749.post-1162337227401228722006-11-01T07:27:00.000+08:002006-11-01T07:27:00.000+08:00Thanks for both comments.As for "anonymous'" comme...Thanks for both comments.<BR/><BR/>As for "anonymous'" comment, it commits the Fallacy of False Alternative that a far-sighted long-range plan can have short-range elements.<BR/><BR/>That _Gogonasus_ may have had some immediate use for its emerging "beginnings of a wrist joint and ... the same arm bones found in humans and four-legged animals-the humerus, radius and ulna" does not preclude them being part of an Intelligent Designer's long-range plan that they were ultimately for "humans to type on computer keyboards" and generally manipulate tools, etc. <BR/><BR/>Anonymous' focusing only on "arms" ignores that the same pattern of bones were not only emerging within the *pectoral* fins but also within the *pelvic* fins. But the latter were less developed than the pectoral fins and so may not yet have been ready for "gogonasus to launch itself at prey underwater." <BR/><BR/>The `blind watchmaker' theory has therefore to explain not just *one* pair of fins transforming into arms but *two* pairs, transforming into both arms *and legs*, when there may have been little, if any, immediate benefit in their earliest stages.<BR/><BR/>Indeed, when considering _Gogonasus'_ sister taxon _Eusthenopteron_, Carroll says of its "… forelimb ... More distally, there are no large endoskeletal supports for the fin and one must suppose that the metacarpals and phalanges of tetrapods developed as almost, if not entirely, new structures." (Carroll, R.L., "Vertebrate Paleontology and Evolution," W.H. Freeman & Co: New York NY, 1988, p.145). IOW, the *forward* support structures also may not have been yet in place for "gogonasus to launch itself at prey underwater." <BR/><BR/>Even the late agnostic Gordon Rattray Taylor realised that "the step from sea" required "an impressive array of coordinated changes" that was "quite inconsistent with the slow accumulation of imperceptible changes upon which Darwin based his theory" and raised the question whether they "could have taken place by chance":<BR/><BR/>"When we survey the evolutionary story, from the first multicellular creatures up to man we soon get the feeling that from time to time there was a dramatic change of plan - and indeed of lifestyle - that is quite inconsistent with the slow accumulation of imperceptible changes upon which Darwin based his theory. ... The most obvious and striking of these major steps was the step from sea to land, a step taken some 360 million years ago. Suddenly, four-legged air-breathing creatures appeared - quite unlike the scaly, limbless, water-breathing fishes which had been the most prolific creatures up to this time. ... So why did the fishes invade the land? No one knows. The real obstacles to such a move were the massive structural changes needed to make life on land worthwhile. To begin with, the fish would need legs simply in order to relieve the pressure of its body on the ground, which would compress the lungs. Equally importantly, the land animal needs a strong pelvic girdle. The fins of fishes are attached only to bony plates beneath the skin and could not support the weight of the body until a link had been provided to transmit their support to the spine. There were problems with the front suspension too, for in fishes the forward fins are firmly linked to the skull. Turned into legs, the animal would have to move its head from side to side with each step, so a new system of suspension had to be provided. Finally, since the weight of the body was no longer taken by the water, the spine itself needed strengthening. ... And so on to the next step, because land animals must also protect their body from drying out, by swapping scales for an impervious skin. Actually, the skin of some modern amphibians is quite sophisticated: it admits water when the creature returns to that element, the increased permeability being under hormonal control. We do not know if anything of the kind occurred in primitive amphibians. Land animals also need to protect their eyes from drying by a flow of tears and need an eyelid to protect it from dust particles. Similarly the nose must be protected by a supply of mucus. The land animal must also change its sense organs. It no longer needs the curious organ which runs along its side called a lateral line, and this is converted, by an amazing series of steps… into the ear. The eye, too, changes, since the refractive index of air is different from that of water and no doubt there are modifications in the sense of smell ... And then, of course, there is the problem of the legs themselves. Before ever the fish reached the land the structure of its fins began to change. Instead of rays, a series of bones corresponding to the tibia, radius and ulna of the arm appeared. Digits, tarsals and metatarsals evolved (so it is now generally conceded) as wholly new structures, though the point - unwelcome to Darwinians - was hotly contested in the 1930s. The fish which decided to remain fish very sensibly, converted their lungs into swim-bladders with which they could regulate the depth at which they swam. ... The earliest definitely four-footed creatures known were found in strata some 370 million years old in Greenland, which at that time was not icy but had a mild climate. Known as Ichthyostegids, they possessed a five-toed foot but retained the fishy tail and the lateral line of their fishy ancestors. ... All that need concern us is the larger question of whether such an impressive array of coordinated changes could have taken place by chance ...." (Taylor G.R., "The Great Evolution Mystery," Harper & Row: New York NY, 1983, pp.55-57, 59-61).<BR/><BR/>BTW apologies for the delay in moderating these comments. I had given Blogger my email address to notify me when there were comments awaiting moderation, but on just now checking it was not there. I have now redone it and checked that it *is* there.<BR/><BR/>Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14510749.post-1162004463103999862006-10-28T11:01:00.000+08:002006-10-28T11:01:00.000+08:00The limbs were used by the gogonasus to launch its...The limbs were used by the gogonasus to launch itself at prey underwater. It did not just grow these arms for no reason waiting to become a human. They evolved for a useful reason. The fact this arm-like structure might later become useful for humans to type on computer keyboards was irrelevant to the gogonasus and its evolution, and you're looking the wrong way down the telescope if you think it was. Pengo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com